SAINT ETIENNE

With a debut appearance on the Word and Top of the Pops a brand new album called 'So Tough'. Things were looking up for Saint Etienne. This exclusive interview with Bob, Pete and Sarah is from 1993 before a live gig at Leeds Metropolitan University. Pulp were the support act that night and even they couldn't steal the magic away from the trio!

Some might say Saint Etienne are elitist, arrogant and totally kitsch. Not a bad thing in my book but if you believe this you have got Saint Etienne summed up totally wrong. Despite growing tiresome of the touring schedule and the boring business they have to do. All those meet and greets, interviews for poxy fanzines! Thankfully the band kindly spent time with RSG for a quick natter.

Upon meeting up with Bob Stanley, Pete Wiggs and the adorable Sarah Cracknell, they instantly come across as the friendliest people you could meet and should be more accurately described as the most sincere pop combo around.

Add to that their unique knack of recording songs that match futuristic elements with a glorious past prove Saint Etienne are one of the most refreshing, colourful, exciting and innovating pop bands around.

A blonde in pop can usually suffer plenty of unfair exploitation and criticism but Sarah seems level headed and assured enough to suggest she wouldn't turn into the puppet like mould of Wendy James.

She does have some qualms though particularly about the acclaimed PJ Harvey stripping off for the NME one year.

"I think probably the fact that PJ Harvey can take her clothes off and have her photograph taken and everyone thinks its really cool, but if I did that I'd get completely slated".

The Melody Maker also acted irresponsibly and met the wrath of Sarah when she wrote a letter to strongly complain about the paper exploiting her.

"It was the fact in that issue there were lots of social comments from people in groups and things and they asked Bob and Pete about that and as far as I was concerned was, print a photo of me with my breasts out, almost."

Pre Girl Power, Riot Grrrls were all the rage back in 1993. Angry, upfront and loud grrrls with attitude out at large and attacking pretty dumb bimbos left, right and centre. Grrrls having a go at the likes of Sarah Cracknell should be wise enough to realise their ignorance and not make assumptions on appearances. Jealousy could make a mock of your otherwise sound manifestos. I asked Sarah where she stood on he movement.

"Its inevitable something like that's bound to happen. Its not something I necessarily want to be a part of. But it doesn't bother me in anyway".

Pretty girl ugly girl, who gives a shit? Its just good to see more women in the music industry. Here's Sarah's sound advice.

"Listen to female singers through the ages. Don't listen to one style of music, listen to lots of different ones".

Sarah already felt the brunt to the sexist side of a male dominated industry and as Saint Etienne become the chart toppers they deserve to be, Murdoch's shit papers like The Scum, The News of The World will be sniffing around. Sarah seems sussed enough not to let it bother her.

"Sometimes it makes me laugh, particularly in Japan I really noticed it. Its got more of a sexist society and when we did interviews and things a person would direct the question towards Bob and Pete."

Bob and Pete lost a couple of singers before finding a permanent soul mate two years ago in the shape of Sarah. Now she is beginning to get more involved in the actual input of what the band does.

"More than I did at the start but its a gradual thing, l can't instantly work well with something it takes a long time to get to know someone and get to know what they are into."

The debut album, Fox Base Alpha was a close runner up to Primal Scream's Screamadelica for the Mercury Music Prize. With voyeuristic tunes like Avenue and songs to float away with like Hobart Paving on the follow up So Tough there is ample evidence Bob Stanley and the gang were out to beat the Primal Scream and record the ultimate 'trip' album.

"Yeah, that was the initial aim to make it really dubby, really spacey. It's got a series of light hearted moments on it. We started like that, we listened to it when we finished about eight songs and put a tape together and we listened to it, it was the most depressing sounding, downer record ever. So we thought we better do something about it".

And do something about it they did. Who said music was shit nowadays? Such competition hasn't been around since a crazed Brian Wilson was trying to out do the Beatles by releasing brilliant Beach Boys records.

"You've got to regard other bands as competition so you have something to aim for. I think Primal Scream are the best band around at the moment and you've got to try and do something you think is better than they done. I don't think So Tough is better though" Bob adds modestly.

So Tough sold 35,000 in its first week of release and when asked about how they react to been compared to the likes of Brian Wilson and Phil Spector, Pete laughs and says he doesn't mind.

"It's when they say or, that's what your aiming for and your not getting anywhere near it so you might as well give up" says Bob "Or when they say you said you want to be a manipulator like Phil Spector which we never said in a million years".

Your In A Bad Way stormed into the charts and put the band where they really belong, on Top Of The Pops. But surely it should have gone to number one (it did in pop heaven - God) Sarah says she was pleased with the success but says Bob is the optimist who is never pleased.

"We'd preferred it to go up, second week after Top of the Pops and it was getting tons of radio play. You can't really complain at number twelve. The albums a bit frustrating because the week it come out because everything that was on the BRITS has sold milllions of copies like Eric Clapton..."

"…Annie Lennox…" spits Sarah. Ouch!

"…So we only came in at seven" continues Bob, "If we'd have brought it out three weeks before it would have come in at (number) one or two but you can't really complain".

But how come a young, colourful pop trio can't out sell the old bastards like Clapton and Collins. What's wrong with the world. Whose to blame? Little shits who spend more time with their Segas and Nintendos for one!

Bob doesn't feel the problem is as bad.

"I think it's probably with the music where its probably not as accessible as you think it is. That's what it is. We had a mix done of Hobart Paving for the next single which would have sounded great on the Radio but we thought it sounded like shit so we're not gonna put it out. We could do different mixes that were specially designed to get into the charts but what's the point really? It would be nice if we were getting number ones and I thought with In A Bad Way, out of anything we've done was gonna be top five, then this was it. But at the same time I could imagine people really hating it and getting on their nerves".

For the extra pop fizz, the band brought in Cliff Richards ex-producer to give 'Bad Way' that pop-tabulous quiff-tastic edge.

"He's a good producer" says Bob, "we're all like fans of A-ha as well. We needed that pop touch and it wasn't there on the album version."

But what about the credibility factor?

"I think it adds to our credibility, don't you?" suggests Sarah.

Erm, yes! Sarah addresses the balance between St. Etienne and their quest for sugar sweet pop and the far out heavy dub they are currently obsessed with.

"Its just been excited by it and staying with what excites you and whatever that sounds like is the way we'll go. So whether it swings from Avenue to Your In A Bad Way and Avenue selling I don't know how many that sold compared to, So Tough. Fortunately we're not in a situation with a record company where we are gonna get forced into a certain direction."

"It really wound me up when people didn't think that Your In A Bad Way was completely sort of like a comedy record" says Bob when questioned about their sense of humour.

So rest assured 'lads' you don't really have to throw away your trainers and grow out your crew cuts after all! (although it is strongly advised - Fashion Ed).

The English tag has often been thrown at the band but they admit to trying to get American samples for the little snippets in between the songs but the stars were asking for loads of money! ZZ Top, clips from films Lolita, Roman Holiday and Steve Martin all had the lawyers twitching and so they had to make do with the English.

"We knew exactly what was going to happen, people were gonna say to us. God, you've been even more English by only using loads of British films but we could have used French films but nobody would understand it."

After this second album, the band stopped putting samples in between songs!

Sarah talks about her increasing sacks 'obsessive' fan-mail.

"I get ever such sweet fan mail and they are very nice and give me loads of advice and being ever so supportive about my letter in Melody Maker and blah, blah, blah. And then at the end they'll say, Oh and by the way if you are ever in Leeds erm, perhaps we could go out for a coffee or something!"

Do you like the way you are so easily accessible?

"I think that's brilliant. If that's the way I'm coming across I'm really pleased. I like the fact that girls write to me as well."

Some may argue bands like Saint Etienne don't want to sell records to people who wouldn't go into record shops but if the charts are used to measure a bands success rate, it doesn't matter who buys your record, does it?

"I hate been judged on the way we look rather than taking the whole thing into consideration" says Sarah on aesthetics of the band.

Bob Stanley was a journalist for the Melody Make, who was one of the first people to rave about the Stone Roses. Does Bob believe it helped St. Etienne gain initial respect?

"None whatsoever, I mean the Melody Maker wrote really gushingly about us for about the first 18 months before they decided they didn't like us after all. Because they were so jealous and the NME totally ignored us for the first year at any rate up to 'Nothing Can Stop Us' going out. So no basically, really the monthlies like the ID and the Face were writing nice things about us that weren't based on the fact that I was a writer. In the weeklies it was going from one extreme to another, it was like you couldn't take the press seriously. No it definitely wasn't much of an advantage."

Ice Rink the label set up by the band to introduce more colour into pop has mysteriously been low profile for awhile. You may have read lavish press on the likes of Golden, but what's happened and how come you can't get hold of the records for this new pop dream?

"The line up changed so they are gonna be re-launched soon" says Bob about Golden.

"The labels been re-started as well" continues Pete, "it was gonna go through Creation but now we're doing it on our own".

The label has since proved fairly low profile and now Bob'n'Pete have their own label. EMIdisc is a subsidiary of EMI and their biggest break was signing Kenickie. It is a little known fact that Saint Etienne were also responsible for Cola Boy.

"They went up in a puff of smoke, disappeared in the sky in a space ship" says Sarah.

The Melody Maker's Everet True slagged off the album 'So Tough' by Saint Etienne. They describe True as "Cunning and sad" but they are not bothered, for this week the band are on the back page of Smash Hits and that it appears is more of a thrill.

Who do you want to appeal to most?

"I'd really like to appeal to a Smash Hits audience, the kids, the same people who groups like East 17 appeal to." says Sarah.

"Without being totally crass," adds Bob, "We want to appeal to as many people as possible. We don't put out records aiming at any target."

What made you first decide to go for a career in music?

"I had such a shit career before that!" laughs Pete.

We talk about the club scene and amongst the chit chat the band agree the scene is flagging what with 'Techno, Techno, Techno' becoming so embarrassingly toy town since it turned mainstream.

"Around '89 or '90 clubs were a brilliant place, a really good laugh but now you tend to get a lot of tension".

On once side Techno is now music for thirteen year olds, mums and dads trying to be trendy. They are the ones who buy these ropy Rave compilations and where all the shitty sports clobber. That’s bad enough but worse still are the crowds attracted to clubs, white kids taking over and making clubs intimidating and potentially violent places to be in. The happy days of taking E and hugging someone you've never met in your life are long gone. It was a daft thing to do in the first place but it was better than the threat of violence lurking over your shoulder when you just want to go out and enjoy yourself.

Thankfully the last year or so has seen a boom on a more cultural dance form. Acid Jazz, Soul and Funk are big on the dance floor now and these laid-back grooves are forcing people to chill out a bit and bring back the original club spirit which is about having a good time. Saint Etienne were knocking the jazz movement recently in MM and they seem very much loyal to the original techno sounds to come from America. They don't appear convinced this is the way forward musically.

"Its funny because a lot of people that like us like Acid Jazz" saws Pete, "but we don't like it!"

"Not really no, that seems so retro. All of us are much more into techno not like hardcore stuff" explains Bob.

"We DJ'd once at a Talkin' Loud night and there's a Talkin' Loud type with the 'goatee' and everyone talks really snotty and I don't like that. I like it were everybody can have a good time. But there's elitism. But if it is like you say with everyone having a good time, then that's okay."

Music in the early nineties (pre-Oasis) could be split two ways, the American grunge scene promotes a back to the grindstone, here is the way rock'n'roll should be played attitude with guitars and stuff. Yet, on the other hand fledgling dance acts like The Shamen were saying rock'n'roll is dead and they were the future. What did St. Etienne think about all of this?

"I dunno I think guitar music is going through a lull, I don't think it can be completely written off" says Bob.

You only have to look at the Stone Roses and Suede for their exciting, fresh guitar licks to prove the Shamen sound like desperate men trying to cash in on their own little empire. Whatever happened to them!?

The band had just recently appeared on the Word performing 'You're In A Bad Way'. What was that early TV experience like?

"The Word was terrifying for me" says Sarah about performing to that miserable Mancunian, Terry Christian, the guy who thinks HE discovered the Mondays and Roses. Who'd heard of Terry Christian in 1988 and 1989 when those two bands first emerged? Nobody.

"They were all right to us, better than I thought, but they treat the audience terrible. They say if you don't wanna dance you can get out of here" claims Pete.

"Top of the Pops was the opposite they were totally respectful to the audience they were all sort of like 15 or 16 year olds" says Bob.

But here is the question you all want to know, what do the band do when the song finishes?

"They keep you there and the camera goes away from you other to that guy, Tony, what's his name?" says Sarah.

The band didn't really get into their debut appearance on Top of the Pops, mainly because as Pete says it was too early in the evening and Bob also felt embarrassed about being over dressed in the gold lame suits! You've got to do it in style haven't you!? That's always been the way with Saint Etienne.

Bob sights the wonderful luscious 'Avenue' as his favourite track and with that Bob, Sarah and Pete wander off to get ready for their knock out show. My everlasting memory of Saint Etienne is hearing the glittery 'Who Do You Think You Are' and thinking this surging Motown inspired powerpop was the sound of the future. Nothing else mattered for those three minutes. The way pop music should be. Bright lights, good looks and the best chorus in the world. Saint Etienne deserve to be top of the pops any day with songs like that. It's nearly 1998 and still no sign of Saint Etienne coming back and we miss 'em. Too young to die. They will be back.

Live photos by Sasha exclusive to the Ready Steady Go! Web Site